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	<title>Comments on: Portraits and mug shots</title>
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	<description>photographica, miscellanea, etcetera</description>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1979</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1979</guid>
		<description>JM Colberg - you mean Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, I take it.  Oddly enough, I just read a book by Philippe Halsman in which he mentions that when he was trying to take their portrait, they looked at him &quot;like a pair of hungry, elderly jackals&quot;.  He finally said to them something like, &quot;Could you please look a little more human?!  You look like you want to devour me.  You&#039;re supposed to be the most romantic couple in the world - the king who gave up his throne for the woman he loved.  Try to look like it.&quot;  They smiled and relaxed a little bit, and he got the picture he wanted.  Both pictures were reprinted in the book, and the change visible in pictures taken only about ten seconds apart is striking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JM Colberg &#8211; you mean Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, I take it.  Oddly enough, I just read a book by Philippe Halsman in which he mentions that when he was trying to take their portrait, they looked at him &#8220;like a pair of hungry, elderly jackals&#8221;.  He finally said to them something like, &#8220;Could you please look a little more human?!  You look like you want to devour me.  You&#8217;re supposed to be the most romantic couple in the world &#8211; the king who gave up his throne for the woman he loved.  Try to look like it.&#8221;  They smiled and relaxed a little bit, and he got the picture he wanted.  Both pictures were reprinted in the book, and the change visible in pictures taken only about ten seconds apart is striking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Anderson</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1978</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1978</guid>
		<description>As Elliot Erwitt once put it, &quot;I always include Luck in the budget.&quot;  I dont think that such an attitude necessarily deprives the photographer of the credit due him or her for a great photograph, but it does recognize to some extent the role that the object world plays in creating one -- the photos that most interest me are those that have, in a sense, two authors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Elliot Erwitt once put it, &#8220;I always include Luck in the budget.&#8221;  I dont think that such an attitude necessarily deprives the photographer of the credit due him or her for a great photograph, but it does recognize to some extent the role that the object world plays in creating one &#8212; the photos that most interest me are those that have, in a sense, two authors.</p>
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		<title>By: guybatey</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1977</link>
		<dc:creator>guybatey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1977</guid>
		<description>Mike Johnston&#039;s blog led me to Shelby Lee Adams website:

http://shelby-lee-adams.blogspot.com/

with the following great quote:

&quot;These portraits are, in a way, self-portraits that represent a long autobiographical exploration of creativity, imagination, vision, repulsion and salvation. My greatest fear as a photographer is to look into the eyes of my subject and not see my own reflection.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Johnston&#8217;s blog led me to Shelby Lee Adams website:</p>
<p><a href="http://shelby-lee-adams.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://shelby-lee-adams.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>with the following great quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;These portraits are, in a way, self-portraits that represent a long autobiographical exploration of creativity, imagination, vision, repulsion and salvation. My greatest fear as a photographer is to look into the eyes of my subject and not see my own reflection.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Song Chong</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1976</link>
		<dc:creator>Song Chong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1976</guid>
		<description>When stable photographic processes became the norm in 19th century England, the first use of portraiture was, in fact, for indexing.  The first real &quot;body of work&quot; that appeared were of the mentally ill, the poor, the orphaned, and the petty criminals.  Although the approach was &quot;scientific&quot; (creating an archive) clearly, these photos were also used to illustrate, even propogate &quot;otherness&quot; within society.

But that&#039;s a digression.  What is most interesting about Avedon&#039;s portraiture was its utter reductiveness...and the fact that he famously stood next to his 8x10, not behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When stable photographic processes became the norm in 19th century England, the first use of portraiture was, in fact, for indexing.  The first real &#8220;body of work&#8221; that appeared were of the mentally ill, the poor, the orphaned, and the petty criminals.  Although the approach was &#8220;scientific&#8221; (creating an archive) clearly, these photos were also used to illustrate, even propogate &#8220;otherness&#8221; within society.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s a digression.  What is most interesting about Avedon&#8217;s portraiture was its utter reductiveness&#8230;and the fact that he famously stood next to his 8&#215;10, not behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: JM Colberg</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1975</link>
		<dc:creator>JM Colberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1975</guid>
		<description>I guess to second Alec&#039;s final point, the one thing that I&#039;ll always remember about Avedon is from a documentary about his work, where he explains how he got the (in)famous photo of the former king of England and his American wife - where they both look so sad. If I remember correctly what Avedon said, they both were in a cheerful mood when they came to his studio, and he just wouldn&#039;t get the kind of expression that he wanted. Given that they both loved animals so much, he then told them that on the way to his studio his car had run over a dog in the street. When their expressions (their jaws quite literally) both dropped, he got his photo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess to second Alec&#8217;s final point, the one thing that I&#8217;ll always remember about Avedon is from a documentary about his work, where he explains how he got the (in)famous photo of the former king of England and his American wife &#8211; where they both look so sad. If I remember correctly what Avedon said, they both were in a cheerful mood when they came to his studio, and he just wouldn&#8217;t get the kind of expression that he wanted. Given that they both loved animals so much, he then told them that on the way to his studio his car had run over a dog in the street. When their expressions (their jaws quite literally) both dropped, he got his photo.</p>
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		<title>By: boru</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1974</link>
		<dc:creator>boru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1974</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll have to agree somewhat with the few dissenters here regarding the Avedon school of thought and presumed degrees of control. While I happen to be a bit of a romantic when it comes to my likes and dislikes of certain things photographic, I do  think it&#039;s an overly romanticized, as well overly philosophical point of view (not to mention kind of indulgent on the part of photographer) to assume that the photographer has possession of such control.  I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a matter of total randomness either- it can go both ways.  In my opinion there&#039;s a limit to how much you can control the viewer&#039;s perception of a subject, before you simply reach the basic core of that person&#039;s presence.  I find this to be especially true with celebrity portraiture, and for that reason find it slightly grating when so much attention is paid to the &quot;artistic, disarming voice&quot; (or something like that) of a photographer&#039;s portrayal of his/her subject (eg, a. liebovitz).  The celebrity is the last person that should be considered %100 mutable to the lens of a camera, no matter how skilled the photographer.  I love Avedon, and I think his portraits are often amazing, as well I love the celebrity portraits of  Irving Penn.  I think these are people who at times (some more so than others) have successfully inserted their  talents into a portrait.  I don&#039;t however, agree with Avedon&#039;s statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have to agree somewhat with the few dissenters here regarding the Avedon school of thought and presumed degrees of control. While I happen to be a bit of a romantic when it comes to my likes and dislikes of certain things photographic, I do  think it&#8217;s an overly romanticized, as well overly philosophical point of view (not to mention kind of indulgent on the part of photographer) to assume that the photographer has possession of such control.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a matter of total randomness either- it can go both ways.  In my opinion there&#8217;s a limit to how much you can control the viewer&#8217;s perception of a subject, before you simply reach the basic core of that person&#8217;s presence.  I find this to be especially true with celebrity portraiture, and for that reason find it slightly grating when so much attention is paid to the &#8220;artistic, disarming voice&#8221; (or something like that) of a photographer&#8217;s portrayal of his/her subject (eg, a. liebovitz).  The celebrity is the last person that should be considered %100 mutable to the lens of a camera, no matter how skilled the photographer.  I love Avedon, and I think his portraits are often amazing, as well I love the celebrity portraits of  Irving Penn.  I think these are people who at times (some more so than others) have successfully inserted their  talents into a portrait.  I don&#8217;t however, agree with Avedon&#8217;s statement.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen Bekman</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1973</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen Bekman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1973</guid>
		<description>You are all magnificent. I love this whole freaking thread of conversation.

it&#039;s especially compelling to me because I have two portrait shows on my near-future roster:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jenbekman.com/artists/benjamin_donaldson/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Benjamin Donaldson&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Summerland&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; opens next Friday (3/16) and my summer group show, which I&#039;m co-curating with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jmcolberg.com/weblog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joerg&lt;/a&gt; is tentatively titled &lt;em&gt;The New American Portrait&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are all magnificent. I love this whole freaking thread of conversation.</p>
<p>it&#8217;s especially compelling to me because I have two portrait shows on my near-future roster:<br />
<a href="http://www.jenbekman.com/artists/benjamin_donaldson/" rel="nofollow">Benjamin Donaldson&#8217;s <em>Summerland</em></a> opens next Friday (3/16) and my summer group show, which I&#8217;m co-curating with <a href="http://www.jmcolberg.com/weblog" rel="nofollow">Joerg</a> is tentatively titled <em>The New American Portrait</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: colin pantall</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1972</link>
		<dc:creator>colin pantall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1972</guid>
		<description>I think there are all sorts of reasons why portraits can be great - but I don&#039;t think the connection between photographer and subject is necessarily the reason - I think that is one of the great mythologies of photography.

Look at the Monroe portrait - there is no connection between the photographer and Monroe - she is connecting with herself. In a similar way, the Cambodia portraits show no connection with the photographer - they are connecting with their terror and the camera as an instrument of that terror.

I don&#039;t know what connection August Sander had with his subjects -  when I look at his pictures I am drawn into the people who are portrayed, sucked into their psyches in some strange mysterious way. I don&#039;t see August Sander there.

Of course, there are relationships between photographers and their subjects. But I&#039;m not sure how much this relationship has to do with portraying an authentic vision of a person, whatever authentic means  - often it&#039;s just as much to do with colluding with that personon some conscious or subconscious level to create a mythologized person. Isn&#039;t that what Avedon did with In the American West. Majestic stuff, but a mythology all the same.


Photographers, on the whole, (everyone on this blog excepted of course)are not that interesting - and the relationship they muster up in 5 seconds, 5 days or 5 years are not that interesting for the most part - what&#039;s interesting is the person who is photographed and the photographer who can get under their skin is a rare thing indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are all sorts of reasons why portraits can be great &#8211; but I don&#8217;t think the connection between photographer and subject is necessarily the reason &#8211; I think that is one of the great mythologies of photography.</p>
<p>Look at the Monroe portrait &#8211; there is no connection between the photographer and Monroe &#8211; she is connecting with herself. In a similar way, the Cambodia portraits show no connection with the photographer &#8211; they are connecting with their terror and the camera as an instrument of that terror.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what connection August Sander had with his subjects &#8211;  when I look at his pictures I am drawn into the people who are portrayed, sucked into their psyches in some strange mysterious way. I don&#8217;t see August Sander there.</p>
<p>Of course, there are relationships between photographers and their subjects. But I&#8217;m not sure how much this relationship has to do with portraying an authentic vision of a person, whatever authentic means  &#8211; often it&#8217;s just as much to do with colluding with that personon some conscious or subconscious level to create a mythologized person. Isn&#8217;t that what Avedon did with In the American West. Majestic stuff, but a mythology all the same.</p>
<p>Photographers, on the whole, (everyone on this blog excepted of course)are not that interesting &#8211; and the relationship they muster up in 5 seconds, 5 days or 5 years are not that interesting for the most part &#8211; what&#8217;s interesting is the person who is photographed and the photographer who can get under their skin is a rare thing indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Metin Oner</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1971</link>
		<dc:creator>Metin Oner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1971</guid>
		<description>As Alec said, &quot;great pictures are so random and mysterious&quot;, I have the same experience, sometimes I have a great connection with the person and the picture stinks and other times I snap a picture in five minutes that turns out to be the best picture I have ever taken.

The other day, I was driving with my family upstate New York. We got hungry and stopped at a diner to eat. I ordered fish and chips. When the food arrived, the plate looked remarkably well prepared, french fries were long and well fried, the fish filets had the same triangular shape as if they came out of the same mold. It even had a leaf of kale with slices of twisted oranges on it. It didn&#039;t take me long to figure out that I was about the have one of the worst eating experiences of my life. The fish and french fries were reconstituted, tartar sauce was in two small packaged containers and did not taste like tartar sauce. The kale leaf and orange slices were probably the best thing to eat on the plate, yet they looked so decorative as if they were not meant to be eaten.

This was the day I read Alec&#039;s post on Jeff Wall. Not that there is anything wrong with staging a photograph as artistic expression, the diner experience made me think of it. Photography has an ability to capture a candid moment that no other art form, including film, has. Why take it away from it? In my pictures, I like the imperfections, sometimes a blur can be the element that makes the point, however, it is totally random and can only be seen after the fact.

Same goes for the portraits. One of the recent trends is to isolate the person from any context, but why? I think context is an element we use to bring depth to a portrait. I don&#039;t believe portraits are capable of reading people&#039;s souls or showing us something about their personality, but they are not totally void of these elements either. When I make a portrait, I am making a comment or statement about the person and if all the elements together work to give some meaning to the viewer, the picture is succesful. For me, the process is random and intuitive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Alec said, &#8220;great pictures are so random and mysterious&#8221;, I have the same experience, sometimes I have a great connection with the person and the picture stinks and other times I snap a picture in five minutes that turns out to be the best picture I have ever taken.</p>
<p>The other day, I was driving with my family upstate New York. We got hungry and stopped at a diner to eat. I ordered fish and chips. When the food arrived, the plate looked remarkably well prepared, french fries were long and well fried, the fish filets had the same triangular shape as if they came out of the same mold. It even had a leaf of kale with slices of twisted oranges on it. It didn&#8217;t take me long to figure out that I was about the have one of the worst eating experiences of my life. The fish and french fries were reconstituted, tartar sauce was in two small packaged containers and did not taste like tartar sauce. The kale leaf and orange slices were probably the best thing to eat on the plate, yet they looked so decorative as if they were not meant to be eaten.</p>
<p>This was the day I read Alec&#8217;s post on Jeff Wall. Not that there is anything wrong with staging a photograph as artistic expression, the diner experience made me think of it. Photography has an ability to capture a candid moment that no other art form, including film, has. Why take it away from it? In my pictures, I like the imperfections, sometimes a blur can be the element that makes the point, however, it is totally random and can only be seen after the fact.</p>
<p>Same goes for the portraits. One of the recent trends is to isolate the person from any context, but why? I think context is an element we use to bring depth to a portrait. I don&#8217;t believe portraits are capable of reading people&#8217;s souls or showing us something about their personality, but they are not totally void of these elements either. When I make a portrait, I am making a comment or statement about the person and if all the elements together work to give some meaning to the viewer, the picture is succesful. For me, the process is random and intuitive.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://alecsothblog.wordpress.com/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1970</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/03/06/portraits-and-mug-shots/#comment-1970</guid>
		<description>Because Avedon&#039;s style is so distinctive (and yet frequently copied) I&#039;ve often wondered what if any effect the fact he never looked through the lens had on the final picture. Does it create a bond, discomfort, comfort, intimacy? Maybe it&#039;s a common technique for all I know.

On intention and mugshots, I picked up a copy of Wisconsin Death Trip recently, what a headspin that is, such mysterious portraits and inventions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because Avedon&#8217;s style is so distinctive (and yet frequently copied) I&#8217;ve often wondered what if any effect the fact he never looked through the lens had on the final picture. Does it create a bond, discomfort, comfort, intimacy? Maybe it&#8217;s a common technique for all I know.</p>
<p>On intention and mugshots, I picked up a copy of Wisconsin Death Trip recently, what a headspin that is, such mysterious portraits and inventions.</p>
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